2006 Dodge Charger HEMI problem

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jemoore17
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2009
    • 19

    #16
    Originally posted by Skip
    None of the SnapOn tools support the "Which Cyl is miss firing" feature for CAN vehicles. I have put in a request to have it added. I would guess the 11.4 release at the earliest if the feature is approved to be added.
    At least it is not hidden.

    Let the bashing begin.

    All right Skip, you asked for it! WTF!?! What irritates me is not that snappy doesn't have that CRITICAL function as of yet (10.2), but it will take OVER A YEAR MINIMUM to "bring it to the table." After all of the boasting of bringing Ford misfire coverage (which is awesome BTW) to us, how can Snappy ignore Chrysler?


    Now, I know that I can only speak for myself here, but I'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to pay more (upwards of $750 SP loyalty) per update if more good stuff was delivered. IMO, you guys give "the masses" (us) JUST ENOUGH to keep us from rioting.


    OK. Now I feel better. With all that being said, I love my Solus Pro!! Keep up the good work Snap-on. I just want more of it. GIMME GIMME GIMME!

    Comment

    • Rich Barton
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2007
      • 452

      #17
      Burn Times

      Originally posted by Crusty
      Hi Rich
      I saw the "burn time" pids but all it says is coil-1 and coil-2 burn time. How that is going to identify which of EIGHT cylinders is misfiring is a mystery.


      I called my local Chrysler dealer and spoke to the service manager who has always been very helpfull and co-operative. He stays hands-on so he stays current with developments (and doesn't hide in the office)
      He says that since 2005 all of their vehicles are CAN and they are using the StarMobil scan tool. To the best of his knowledge the '04 Durango was their first CAN compliant vehicle.
      When I specifically asked him regarding Misfires, he said there was a selection right on the screen that shows both the MID/TID/CID $xx along with the written description of Cyl-1-misfire or Cyl-2-misfire, etc, and it is a constant updating counter that displays misfires live and is an incrementing counter. You can select all cylinders or select individual cylinders.
      No hoop jumping & not hidden.
      Hi Crusty,

      It is funny you brought this up, there only being coil 1 and coil 2 burn times.

      I ran into this years ago and thought that snappy had it as bank 1 and bank 2
      This is not the case this is really coil 1 and coil 2.

      If this is still this way then it should be reported to snappy so they can fix it.

      It should read all coils and this does work very well for misfire detection.

      Here is a snapshot of me using the starmobile(oem Scan tool) this is on an 05 jeep 3.7 at idle I unhooked the coil connector on #3 coil as fast as I can.

      This is how I find misfires on can dodges.

      thanks for bringing that up so we can get it fixed.
      Attached Files
      Rich Barton
      C.R.B. Repair

      Comment

      • Crusty
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2007
        • 2450

        #18
        RICH
        When it showed coil-1 and coil-2, I looked at the wiring schematic and it shows this as a COP engine which means this engine should have eight coils.
        This means PIDS are "missing" (LOL)

        So something as basic as a misfire pid on a 4 or 5 year old North American product and we need an OEM scan tool to find it?.
        If you ran into it years ago, then SO have been aware of it before this.
        Shouldn't have taken this long to fix it

        As for bringing it up, Transman is the guy who brought this up.
        As for fixing it, that depends on the interpretation of the word "broken".

        SKIP
        So what is the manual Mode-6 TID selection for cylinder misfire identification for each cyclinder so Transman can isolate which cylinder (or cylinders) have the misfire?

        When I select generic functions to go into the OBD side with the SO scanner (and K20) the mode $06 selections available are;

        OBDMID: $13
        OBDMID: $18
        OBDMID: $51
        OBDMID: $52
        OBDMID: $53
        OBDMID: $54
        OBDMID: $55
        OBDMID: $56
        OBDMID: $57
        OBDMID: $58
        OBDMID: $5A
        OBDMID: $5C

        NONE of which are identified.and do not match the published information from Chrysler in the service manual for this YY/MM/MM.
        Any help for Transman from SO with this problem?

        Comment

        • Nickb
          DSD
          • Aug 2007
          • 206

          #19
          If he puts in the manual selection in Mode $06 for A2 through A9. A2 representing cylinder one and A9 being cylinder 8. This is your misfire data. Hope this helps
          DSD

          Comment

          • Skip
            Super Moderator
            • Apr 2008
            • 605

            #20
            [QUOTE=Crusty;16421]Skip,
            Are you referring to just Chrysler products?


            Crusty,
            I am only speaking of Chrysler. I do not know the status of the other manufacturers.

            Comment

            • Earl Davis
              Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 78

              #21
              I had a 2006 Charger this morning and I found the same information that was posted from the Chrysler factory tool. Unplugged #2 for this post.

              Earl
              Attached Files

              Comment

              • Skip
                Super Moderator
                • Apr 2008
                • 605

                #22
                I agree to the need for all of the burn time PIDs and have made a formal request to have them put into the tool.

                Comment

                • Earl Davis
                  Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 78

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Crusty
                  RICH
                  When it showed coil-1 and coil-2, I looked at the wiring schematic and it shows this as a COP engine which means this engine should have eight coils.
                  This means PIDS are "missing" (LOL)

                  So something as basic as a misfire pid on a 4 or 5 year old North American product and we need an OEM scan tool to find it?.
                  If you ran into it years ago, then SO have been aware of it before this.
                  Shouldn't have taken this long to fix it

                  As for bringing it up, Transman is the guy who brought this up.
                  As for fixing it, that depends on the interpretation of the word "broken".

                  SKIP
                  So what is the manual Mode-6 TID selection for cylinder misfire identification for each cyclinder so Transman can isolate which cylinder (or cylinders) have the misfire?

                  When I select generic functions to go into the OBD side with the SO scanner (and K20) the mode $06 selections available are;

                  OBDMID: $13
                  OBDMID: $18
                  OBDMID: $51
                  OBDMID: $52
                  OBDMID: $53
                  OBDMID: $54
                  OBDMID: $55
                  OBDMID: $56
                  OBDMID: $57
                  OBDMID: $58
                  OBDMID: $5A
                  OBDMID: $5C

                  NONE of which are identified.and do not match the published information from Chrysler in the service manual for this YY/MM/MM.
                  Any help for Transman from SO with this problem?
                  Crusty,

                  If you go into generic functions with the K25 you will see all of the mode 6 misfire mids. I did not save a snap shot but it was there on this 2006 RT Charger.

                  Earl

                  Comment

                  • Crusty
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2007
                    • 2450

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Earl Davis
                    Crusty,

                    If you go into generic functions with the K25 you will see all of the mode 6 misfire mids. I did not save a snap shot but it was there on this 2006 RT Charger.

                    Earl
                    NOT on my Solus-Pro-!!! It prompts me to use the K20 for OBD-mode$6-!
                    They wern't displayed in the Generic functions either (K25).

                    Your screen shot shows you're using the "flagship" Verus, AND you're displaying the pids/graphs in Shopstream Connect too. (I'm not chiding YOU)
                    HHHMMMMM.
                    Flagship tool has all the pids (not "missing" as in the S-Pro)
                    You're making good use of the software which is what others would LIKE to do (but it doesn't seem to function properly with files from the S-Pro)
                    HHHMMMMM.
                    Last edited by Crusty; 06-30-2010, 03:00 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Skip
                      Super Moderator
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 605

                      #25
                      I did some digging on this end and here is what I came up with. An 06 Charger 5.7L is currently assigned 7 different ID #'s from SnapOn known as a BEN number. You may have seen this in the lower left corner of the screen as you enter a controller. In the past, each vehicle/ engine package had its own unique number. Not so with Chrysler CAN vehicles. With every reflash from Chrysler, the engineer has to assign a new BEN to the car. This allows the scanner to talk to the "new" controller. Of the 7 BEN's, only one, the latest, has all 8 PIDs for coil burn time because that is when Chrysler put it in there. So, depending on the software level of the car and your scanner you may or may not get all of the PIDs. This also means that if Chrysler flashes a car, and you do not update your scanner that has the correct info for that flashed controller, you may not be able to talk to it even though you could before it was flashed. Confused yet? Me too.
                      Bottom line is some versions will show all burn time PIDs and some will not. It all depends on the software level of the car. It is not something special for Verus users. If you hook up a Solus, heck even an Ethos to the same car with same SO software you should see the same PIDs.
                      The engineer told if it has 8 burn time PIDs, he lists all 8. If it only shows 2, thats all he can show.

                      Comment

                      • Crusty
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2007
                        • 2450

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Skip
                        I did some digging on this end and here is what I came up with. An 06 Charger 5.7L is currently assigned 7 different ID #'s from SnapOn known as a BEN number. You may have seen this in the lower left corner of the screen as you enter a controller. In the past, each vehicle/ engine package had its own unique number. Not so with Chrysler CAN vehicles. With every reflash from Chrysler, the engineer has to assign a new BEN to the car. This allows the scanner to talk to the "new" controller. Of the 7 BEN's, only one, the latest, has all 8 PIDs for coil burn time because that is when Chrysler put it in there. So, depending on the software level of the car and your scanner you may or may not get all of the PIDs. This also means that if Chrysler flashes a car, and you do not update your scanner that has the correct info for that flashed controller, you may not be able to talk to it even though you could before it was flashed. Confused yet? Me too.
                        Bottom line is some versions will show all burn time PIDs and some will not. It all depends on the software level of the car. It is not something special for Verus users. If you hook up a Solus, heck even an Ethos to the same car with same SO software you should see the same PIDs.
                        The engineer told if it has 8 burn time PIDs, he lists all 8. If it only shows 2, thats all he can show.

                        Skip
                        While it's not a great answer, at least someone looked into it. THANKS.
                        Seeing as how Chrysler doesn't provide OBDII misfire information 'cause it's SUPPOSED to be information available in their vehicle specific datastream, what about SO providing the misfire mode-6 information? All the MID/TID #'s are just numbers that don't match what is in the Chrysler OBDII chart. There is no description beside them as they are on SOME applications where SO shows a TID-# AND there is a description beside it.
                        How about the SSC dispalying on a VERUS but the files won't read on a computer when the files are from a Solus-Pro and sometimes a Vantage-Pro??
                        The post above PROVES that SSC is used and can be informative when testing/checking vehilces.

                        Comment

                        • Skip
                          Super Moderator
                          • Apr 2008
                          • 605

                          #27
                          Crusty,
                          I brought up the mode 6 issue at our weekly troubleshooter group lunch today and we are going to look into it. I can make no promises but I looked at the mode on my own 05 Jeep and I agree, it looks quite useless. I can't make heads or tails out of it. As a dealer tech, we never used mode 6 or even P codes. The factory scanner (DRB III) gave us text codes and had its own OBD II section. I can easily see the need for the ability to decode this information.
                          Where do you guys go to try to decipher this information now?

                          Comment

                          • Joe Rappa
                            Snap-on DSD
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 2050

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Skip
                            Crusty,
                            I brought up the mode 6 issue at our weekly troubleshooter group lunch today and we are going to look into it. I can make no promises but I looked at the mode on my own 05 Jeep and I agree, it looks quite useless. I can't make heads or tails out of it. As a dealer tech, we never used mode 6 or even P codes. The factory scanner (DRB III) gave us text codes and had its own OBD II section. I can easily see the need for the ability to decode this information.
                            Where do you guys go to try to decipher this information now?
                            Hi Skip,

                            The info is in Shopkey, under Mode 6.

                            Joe
                            "You don't build a reputation on what you're going to do"
                            Henry Ford

                            Comment

                            • Crusty
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 2450

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Skip
                              Crusty,
                              I brought up the mode 6 issue at our weekly troubleshooter group lunch today and we are going to look into it. I can make no promises but I looked at the mode on my own 05 Jeep and I agree, it looks quite useless. I can't make heads or tails out of it. As a dealer tech, we never used mode 6 or even P codes. The factory scanner (DRB III) gave us text codes and had its own OBD II section. I can easily see the need for the ability to decode this information.
                              Where do you guys go to try to decipher this information now?
                              Skip
                              I go into my electronic database, look up that specific YY/MM/MM and see what the manufacturer published.
                              MOST times the MID/TID's match what is on the scanner screen but sometimes, as in this case, the MID/TID diplayed on screen isn't in the published information.
                              SOME of the MID/TID's for SOME vehicles have the $xx number and a written description beside it referring to (eg) catalyst efficiency or O2-heater but quite often there is just a $xx and that is not what is in the factory manual so it's virtually useless.
                              MOST of the time, if the information (such as misfires) is SUPPOSED to be in their normal datastream, they don't publish ANYTHING regarding OBDII becuase it wasn't necessary..... IF the scanner diaplays what is supposed to be there-!!! BUT ACCORDING TO SO, MISSING ISNT BROKEN-!
                              So, you save the codes, save the screen shots, save the movies of datastreams, HOPE to find something somewhere else...... hours or days later, you find something, try to load the movies in SSC to review the data and see if it jives with the information you FINALLY found.....and the damned SSC won't display.
                              If you've got a VERUS it seems you can play back in SSC but reloading all the saved files back onto a Solus-Pro just to play back 5 minutes of data, 1) is a PITA, and 2) sometimes will not reload back onto the machine at all.....
                              THAT's why the PROPER operation of SSC is an issue.
                              Who has time to constantly load and reload .scm files on and off a scanner???, and NO they won't play back from the USB-stick either, and you don't want to record to any external device (usb-stick OR cf-card) 'cause you can lose 30 seconds of datastream and on some devices over 2 minutes of data while the buffer downloads to the external.....
                              SAME PITA FOR 2-1/2 YEARS.

                              Comment

                              • ephratah service center
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2007
                                • 143

                                #30
                                I want to chime in here about the ability to display movies.
                                I think S.O. needs to do all it can to support these features as it is one the advertised features when the scanner is sold. The movie feature is very useful to the smaller guys such as myself and Crusty we have emailed the movies back and forth to be reviewed and he has been a huge help to me.
                                The ability to store and review movies is a feature that I use almost daily I use the data base that I have started to build to compare known good vehicles to vehicles that I am having problems with. Yes some problems are a no brainer then you get the ones that just leave you scratching your head these are the ones where the data base comes into play and when I send a movie to Crusty and have him review it as they say 2 heads are better than one.
                                I can no longer play the movies on 1 of my computers as S.O. file format is not supported by windows 7. I should not have to tweek my setting in windows program to make something work it should just work when it is opened up in the Shop Stream program.
                                S.O. needs to get on the ball and make sure it provides what it advertises.

                                Comment

                                Working...