Snapon Diagnostics Product Forums Diagnostic Home . Diagnostic Product Index . Customer Care        
Diagnostic SoftwareDiagnostic PlatformsAsk-a-Tech, Automotive Repair InformationTech Central
Go Back   Snapon Diagnostics Product Forums > Member General Discussion Forum > General Discussions > Australian Member User Group
Home Today's Posts Register Members List FAQ
Thank you for visiting Snap-on Diagnostics Product Forums.
You are currently NOT logged in to a registered account. Some functions of Snap-on Diagnostics Product Forums will not be available to you if your are not logged in as a registered member. For a limited time only, registrationto Snap-on Diagnostics Product Forums to Snap-on Diagnostics Product Forums is !! FREE !! Select the    **REGISTER NOW**    link to register for your FREE Snap-on Diagnostics Product Forums account!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:30 PM
brad_m brad_m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Townsville, Australia
Posts: 42
brad_m Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default The fight for service and repair information.

After being told not so politely from a few dealers that workshop manuals are not available for sale, I started looking at were we stand legally on the issue.


The ACCC basicly told me they wouldn't help and provided me with other options or contacts.

I figured that the Motor Trades Association was the next best option to find out some info. There I found a link the 'AAAA' Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association.
That is where I found something both positive and negative.

The negative is that the OEMs are not legally obliged to provide any information to Independent repairers.
But at least the AAAA are trying to fix this MAJOR problem.

Quote:
In March 2011, the Hon David Bradbury MP, Parliamentary Secretary for Consumer Affairs and Competition Policy initiated an independent inquiry into the sharing of repair and service information in the automotive industry. This inquiry is the direct result of an approach by the AAAA to Mr Bradbury in which we detailed the potential future impact on consumer choice and competition for Australia’s 12 million car owners if the Government does not intervene to require vehicle manufacturers to share vital repair and service information outside their authorised dealer networks. We believe that data sharing by vehicle manufacturers is one of the most critical issues facing the independent aftermarket in the years ahead.
Full info here.
http://www.aaaa.com.au/files/issues/...on%20Final.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:09 AM
greasybob's Avatar
greasybob greasybob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,493
greasybob You made it!  You've done a great job ofearning reputation from your peers.  You now have secret access to a new hidden forum!

Default

Is there no Shop Key or All Data for Australian vehicles ? Are their any manufacturer web sites such as those you would use for flashing and programming that also have OEM repair information ? Usually but not always for an additional fee.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-04-2013, 02:00 PM
brad_m brad_m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Townsville, Australia
Posts: 42
brad_m Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default

We have Autodataonline.com $1100 per year. I already use that, but the info is not complete and current model info is patch work.

We have no access at all to anything that allows us to flash or program.

As it sits now, if we replace a power steering pump on a Mazda 2 it needs to go to a dealer to have the programing done.

We can't even get access to basic service resets for oil data on most late model diesels. We only just got that capability for the 2008 Mazda3 diesel in the 12.4 update for modis.

I had to turn away a service on Subaru diesel two days ago due to not being able to reset the oil dilution data.

I do some insurance work, we had a stolen recovered Mazda 6 with no keys, I bought a full of keys etc from mazda, fitted the parts, then had to put the car on a tow truck to the mazda dealer to have the programing done. Mazda had the car for 5 days.

I have a 2004 Ford falcon that we have changed the diff ratio and tire/wheel size. This requires the vehicle ID in the PCM to be changed to to suit so correct the speedometer and the Auto shift points. The speedometer is currently reading fast by %5 and it will tag the rev limiter in first gear before it up changes to second at WOT.

I spoke to the dealer last week and I'm still waiting for a price to do it and time to have it done.

We have no access to TSBs or recall information and we have no access to OEM special service tools.


After joining this site and seeing what you guy have access to, made me realize how bad we have it here.

Last edited by brad_m; 01-04-2013 at 02:16 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-09-2013, 07:07 PM
crackerclicker crackerclicker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Watertown, WI
Posts: 399
crackerclicker Made it to level 2!  Looks like you are on your way to becoming famous

Default

you need a group like this: http://www.nastf.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3282

it would likely be much more effective if you could get a system in place that does not require government intervention.


here is an idea of the oem info that is available to us in the states: http://www.nastf.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3291
then we have 2 major companies that "copy & paste" that info into their own program: http://www.alldata.com/ http://www.mitchell1.com/pdg/odV5.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-11-2013, 12:54 AM
brad_m brad_m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Townsville, Australia
Posts: 42
brad_m Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default

The group doing the fighting for us, the AAAA have been in contact with NASTF and have researched both the US models and the UK models dealing with the same issue.

It is their opinion that when it is self regulated the OEMs will abuse the system and still make things difficult for us. (until more complaints are made and then the info will flow again -for a time- and the process rolls over and over) That and by the looks of it the prices vary greatly across the brands too.

Personally I would prefer Govt intervention to regulate what is made available and to regulate for a fair and reasonable time frame and price to make the info available.
Then every one knows where they stand and what their rights and obligations are.

The dealers know they can't compete with us on the personal service, they can't compete on price, the only way they can compete is to with hold the needed information for us to carry out even the most basic of tasks like being to code a power steering pump on a Mazda2, or reset oil data on the current Forrester diesel, and not have access to buy special service tools for common tasks.

Lets face it, if the OEMs where going to be fair about it, it would never have to come to this in the first place.

We are not asking to get it for free, we just want a level playing field and then let the quality of the work and service speak the loudest.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2013, 01:07 AM
brad_m brad_m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Townsville, Australia
Posts: 42
brad_m Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default

A submission made by the OEMs representing body called for "compulsory purchase of ALL SSTs and diagnostic equipment from ALL manufacturers that currently market cars in Australia" by all independent repairers if service and repair information is made available.

I'm sorry but where does a repairer who turns over $400 000 a year get a few million dollars to do that and keep everything up to date?

Mean while the OEM dealers only want to keep the tools etc for their brands.

They also wanted any independent who claimed to able to service new cars with out effecting the warranty "investigated". Even though we have consumer laws that prevent the OEMs from dishonoring warranty claims on the basis that the car had been serviced by and independent.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:06 AM
Skip's Avatar
Skip Skip is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Jose Ca.
Posts: 595
Skip Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default

This is so different it's hard to grasp. Here if I need any SST or information I can get from the dealer or the tool company. German stuff is harder though. OEM's are looking to profit from aftermarket any way they can. The dealers are the ones who try to stop it as it takes money from their shops.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-12-2013, 12:22 AM
brad_m brad_m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Townsville, Australia
Posts: 42
brad_m Congratulations!  Your peers have given you enough reputation to put you into the fist level!

Default

I often have the machine shop down the road make tools for me.

I draw them up and he'll make them for me, in return I fill the propane bottles for his fork lift free of charge.

But I shouldn't have to resort to that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:52 AM
Crusty Crusty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Great White North
Posts: 2,441
Crusty You made it!  You've done a great job ofearning reputation from your peers.  You now have secret access to a new hidden forum!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
This is so different it's hard to grasp. Here if I need any SST or information I can get from the dealer or the tool company. German stuff is harder though. OEM's are looking to profit from aftermarket any way they can. The dealers are the ones who try to stop it as it takes money from their shops.
I think what they need are anti-trust laws so manufacturers can't create monopolies within their own kingdoms.

From what I understand the European manufacturers are following the "letter" of the law with NASTF so to speak by, yes, making the information available, but ONLY through their own proprietary scan tools, and the scan tools only continue to function with subscriptions to the parent corporation. Now come the question of "reasonable cost" which is very subjective. They can charge what THEY think their proprietary equipment is worth and the cost for internet subscriptions can vary widely.

The European manufacturers have found a very CLEVER way of CIRCUMVENTING the open release of information (I did NOT say free, I said open), which again would bring in the question of "reasonable cost".

They may be following the "letter" of the agreement with NASTF but they sure aren't following the spirit and intent of people being able to have their vehicles serviced properly by anyone other than their own dealerships. This even affects safety issues, not just emissions.

Here in Canada, we're lucky to be neighbours with our friends in the USA so AFAIC most manufacturers just consider Canada as another one of the 48 States. While our territory is vast, our population averages out to one State. I think Australia and NZ are in the same boat without a large population per square mile.

Why does there exist the Magnusen-Moss act and why did the Feds break up AT&T....because they were attempting to hold the population at large RANSOM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:31 AM
greasybob's Avatar
greasybob greasybob is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,493
greasybob You made it!  You've done a great job ofearning reputation from your peers.  You now have secret access to a new hidden forum!

Default

Why car manufacturers concern them selves with what goes on in the service bays of their independently owned dealers is beyond me. I think it was a Toyoya rep who said " we're in the busines of selling vehicles and vehicle parts ". Really, by the time a new technology actually hits the road it's already a few years old and in a day of 3D image scanners and printers, backwards engineering of a product isn't as hard as it used to be. Does making it harder to get your vehicle servicd because only a dealer can perform the services really help your sales ? PAX tires anyone ? I know I'm a tech and tend to look at things differently than most and before I buy anything the first two questions are " is it service able and can I get parts for it"?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Reminder: Your participation in these areas of the site is solely at your own risk. The
information is only the opinion of the poster, is no substitute for your own research,
and should not be relied upon for business critical decisions or any other purpose.
Never assume that you are anonymous and cannot be identified by your posts.
We reserve the right to discontinue any users' use of any such public forum
for any reason. Please read the Terms of Service.

Snap-on is a trademark, registered in the United States and other countries, of Snap-on Incorporated. Other marks are marks of their respective holders.
©2009 Snap-on Incorporated. All rights reserved.